Be in Majority vs Last Standing[]
I think if a faction's WINCON is to be in majority and they make majority, they should win regardless of remaining roles. That's why their wincon is "be in majority" and not "eliminate indy and goodies" or something else. Assume there are seven players left in a game. There are four baddies and three goodies. Every goodie has a vote redirect and all roles are outed. The goodies could work together and redirect all baddie votes to one baddie + vote for that baddie. Vote totals would be 6 for the baddie and 1 for a goodie. One of the goodies even has a save and successfully predicts the target of the NK forever. If the Baddies' wincon was "Be in Majority" they should still win (I would rule it as a win) because their condition is met. In the same scenario, if the baddies' wincon was to "eliminate all other factions" then they'll clearly lose (assuming the save is always right and the vote redirects work together). That's the biggest difference that I see between "Be in Majority" and elimination-type wincons. --Molly Mae 17:11, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
- Well, I'll make sure to remember it when I am playing one of your games :P. Shrug. I think you can safely add that to the page as being interpretable by hosts in a different manner. For one, other than fast-forwarding, I see no difference between this and last standing. My PoV: What's the point in temporarily having a majority if one is unable to do something with it, like win a day's lynch? (political system analogy) --Araver 03:11, June 28, 2011 (UTC)
- So you're viewing majority as vote count where I view it as head count (unless there's a hydra). I certainly see your point of view. Would you then give the win to 3 baddies with a vote redirect vs 4 goodies without vote manip? I imagine so, but that scenario is very clear since the baddies can agree on a vote target in BTSC while any goodies who try in the game thread could be subject to WIFOM... A Mafia Discussion topic on head count vs vote count is probably in order. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but perhaps a rewording of the WinCon to "Be in Vote Majority" is in order.. To the discussion forum! (Tonight...after I get off work)
- Yeah, that's the spot. Though I would hesitate to actually stop the game at the beginning with 3 baddies with vote manip and 4 goodies without vote manip, since well, inactivity from 1 player may change the actual vote result and a tie lynch rule may cloud the end-game. E.g. if the vote manip is not a vote redirect, just a simple self x2, this may lead to 4vs4 = a tie. But, if there were 3 baddies with a vote manip and 3 goodies without vote manip, I would stop the game since even if optimal play (perfect knowledge=all roles known) is assumed from goodies, they still lose the lynch. Even if the night is a stalemate (no NK because of goodie save or block on carrier,etc), the baddies own the days. Basically, whenever I see baddies gaining A) "vote majority" OR B) "vote stalemate" (no one lynched) AND still "own the night" (goodies have a casualty each night) ... then I think the end-game cannot be changed by any combination of goodie actions/votes/anything. So, I fast-forward and stop the game. --Araver 15:03, June 28, 2011 (UTC)
- So you're viewing majority as vote count where I view it as head count (unless there's a hydra). I certainly see your point of view. Would you then give the win to 3 baddies with a vote redirect vs 4 goodies without vote manip? I imagine so, but that scenario is very clear since the baddies can agree on a vote target in BTSC while any goodies who try in the game thread could be subject to WIFOM... A Mafia Discussion topic on head count vs vote count is probably in order. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but perhaps a rewording of the WinCon to "Be in Vote Majority" is in order.. To the discussion forum! (Tonight...after I get off work)